10/16/04
By: Eric Stone
Eric Stone: Tell us a bit about yourself, how old you are, what you do, where you live, where you grew up and anything else general you'd like to add about your life outside powerlifting.
Nectar Kirkiris: First off, let me congratulate and thank you for all you do for powerlifting. You're a real credit to Illinois powerlifting.
As for myself, I'm 34 years old and I've been involved in powerlifting for the past 7 years. I'm currently a Product Manager for Motorola in Arlington Heights, Illinois where I have been employed for the past 9 years. My work currently focuses on developing product road maps for next generation base stations.
I grew up in Lynn, Massachusetts, which is just north of Boston (GO Red Sox!). I have a BS in Electrical Engineering from Boston University and a MSEE from Georgia Tech.
I'm an avid reader and typically go through about 1 book every 7-10 days. When I'm not at work or at the gym, I enjoy spending my time with my girlfriend, Loraine.
ES: What are your best lifts in powerlifting in competition and training, and at what weight?
NK: My best squat is 611lbs, deadlift 633lbs at 242lbs body weight. My best bench is 478lbs at 275lbs, which was done in 2003. I haven't squatted in competition in a few years due to a groin injury but my short term goal is to qualify for USAPL's men's nationals in the 275lbs class. Unfortunately, my competitive schedule took a hit this year due my coaching duties and a busy work schedule. My training numbers are currently projecting to about a 1800 total by means of a 620lbs squat, 520lbs bench and 660lbs deadlift. My training has been going great lately and I'm looking forward to getting back to doing 3-4 meets next year.
ES: What are some of your accomplishments in powerlifting?
NK: I've had a wonderful experience with powerlifting so far. I've helped Dennis Brady put on several very successful national championships. Together we put on 2003 IPF Women's Worlds, which was the first IPF full powerlifting competition in the USA in nearly 18 years. I've been a coach and team manager for Team USA at the Master's Bench Press World Championships for the past 4 years, which has been the dominant team in that competition during this period.
I've also met many great people from all over the US and the world who I consider good friends. I'm always amazed by how similar powerlifters are no matter where they are from. Powerlifting has given me the opportunity to travel to many different countries around the world that I would have never had a chance to visit. How many people can say they've been to what used to be Slovakia? I've been there twice in the past 3 years! I particularly enjoy going to Eastern Europe. The people are extremely friendly and everything is fairly inexpensive. I really hope everyone can get as much out of this sport as I have.
ES: What is your proudest moment in powerlifting?
NK: There are many but a few are being head coach and team manager for last years Master's Bench Press team. Kevin Farley, who is usually the head coach, couldn't come to the competition due to a personal conflict so I had to assume head coaching responsibilities. For anyone that hasn't been to an IPF competition, it is the most intense event you can experience in this sport. In addition, over half of our lifters were lifting in their first IPF meet. But, we ended up having a lot of success and I got to coach against Russian head coach Vladimir Bogatchev, which was another great thrill for me as I think that he is the best powerlifting coach in the world.
A few other great memories are helping Tony Succorotte in his upset win at the 2002 men's nationals in the 220's and coaching him in his win at 2003 bench nationals. He is one of my closest friends in the sport and I am very happy to see his recent success.
I'm also proud of the fact that I've been able to get all of the master's bench pressers successfully roomed and transported to/from all of the Master's Bench Press World Championships. Some of them aren't exactly the most seasoned travelers and in the back of my head I always thought that there would be at least a couple aimlessly wandering around Eastern Europe at this point (LOL!).
Truthfully, there's a lot that I'm proud of in this sport. I think one of the ways of achieving longevity in this sport is to appreciate the small things and to put the big things in their proper perspective. To me, training at B&W with my friends is just as satisfying as coaching someone who wins IPF gold.
ES: How did you get involved in powerlifting?
NK: I've enjoyed lifting weights since high school and I've been fascinated by strength ever since I could remember. I remember watching Vasili Alexeev lift at the 76 Olympics as well as the original World Strongest Man competitions with Kaz, Reinhodt, Ken Patera, etc. and wanting to be like them. After grad school, I lived in St. Pete Florida where I trained mostly with bodybuilders and soon realized that I was not bodybuilder material. When I moved to Chicago in early 96, I was becoming bored and unfocused with my training so I decided to do a local powerlifting competition and I have been hooked ever since. Then in early 1998, another lifter at a Powerhouse gym told me about this hardcore gym on Chicago's North side called B&W. I went there and met Dennis Brady, who I consider my mentor and good friend. I can honestly say that everything I have accomplished and learned in this sport is directly a result to having gone to B&W and met Dennis. He is the most pragmatic, intelligent and honest person I have met in this sport and he's the first person whose advice I seek for anything related to powerlifting. In my opinion, he is the best meet director in the US.
ES: What type of training do you adhere to?
NK: I believe in fairly basic 5X5 type of training. I feel that you need to get an optimum amount of time under tension to get the best gains. For the bench press, I incorporate an additional speed day workout similar to what Westside barbell does. I also do quite a bit of board presses for my bench press and occasionally throw in some band work. For the squat I like to use the safety squat bar quite a bit because it puts a lot less stress on my shoulders. For the deadlift, in addition to conventional deadlifts, I do a few sets of reverse band deadlifts for upper back strength since my lockout is week. Overall, I'd say that about 70% of my time in the gym is spent doing some type of bench press, squat or deadlift. I also like to train with minimal equipment only adding a belt and wraps, when I can't reach my target reps and sets without equipment. The last 4 weeks before a contest, I go in full gear and do mostly singles in order to peak for the contest.
ES: Who are some of the people who have most influenced your training and powerlifting career in general?
NK: I like Fred Hatfield's training philosophy because I see so many of his principles used by so many other great lifters. I have also been heavily influenced by Eddy Coan, Dennis Brady, Brad Gillingham, Scott Lade, Larry Maile and Ralph Young. I also use quite a few of Louis Simmons assistance exercises and I have been a fan of Westside Barbell for a long time. I don't totally agree with all of their training philosophies but every article I read makes me think about what I'm doing and why I'm doing it, which I think is very important for every lifter to do. There's no denying that Westside Barbell is one of the biggest influences in powerlifting over the past 15-20 years.
I've also learned a lot from Rob Wagner's articles in the USAPL newsletter. He's one of the top strength coaches in the country and doesn't get nearly enough credit within Powerlifting.
In terms of non-training related powerlifting influences, its Dennis Brady.
ES: How important do you think training partners are to training?
NK: I think good training partners can be helpful but they are hard to find and keep given how our work and personal lives affect our daily schedules. Far more important than training partners I feel is a good environment to train. Being a member of B&W, I know that I can always find people there to help with equipment or spotting. Also, everything about the gym is intense and hardcore, which really helps with motivation. Unfortunately, there are very few gym around like that.
ES: How long do you see yourself continuing powerlifting? For as long as you possibly can?
NK: I'm sure I'll always be involved in powerlifting in some capacity. I have many goals that I still want to achieve and I can't see myself ever truly leaving the sport. I'm a powerlifter and powerlifters powerlift.
ES: What is your opinion of the alphabet soup of powerlifting federations? Is there a solution?
NK: I think there are way too many and this has greatly diluted the sport. But what I or anyone else things really doesn't matter because the free market is going to decide what direction powerlifting takes. When a federation decides how to provide a service that powerlifters and non-lifters want and can brand itself effectively, it will be possible for it to emerge as the dominant fed. Until that time, the state of powerlifting is what it is.
There are several problems with powerlifting at this point from a business perspective. First, there is very little market growth. If you account for population growth over the past 20 years, you'll probably find that the total number of active powerlifters per year hasn't really change. Second, there is too little importance attached to product differentiation in powerlifting. Although most lifters have preferences on the type of equipment, drug testing, venues and judging that they prefer, most are willing to lift in any meet that is close to them even if it does not provide them and ideal setting. Finally, the cost of entry into the business of running meets is far too low. For example, Dr. Darrel Latch promotes dozen of competitions around the Midwest each year simply by loading some trophies into his pickup and driving out to gyms that are willing to host competitions. If we factor in his mileage at $.35/mile and the cost of this trophies, his overhead is probably less than $200/meet. (Note: this is not meant as a cheap shot at Dr. Latch. He clearly provides a service that lifters want. But, I'm just using him to illustrate my point). From a pure pricing perspective, there is absolutely no way USAPL, APF or any other fed could possibly undercut his prices and put him out of business all other things being equal. Therefore, the reasons why there are so many powerlifting federations is simply because there is very little brand loyalty and it is so inexpensive to get into the business of powerlifting. Combine this with no market growth and you get to a situation where it is becoming increasingly difficult for major federations to grow and possibly gain appeal with the general public.
The solutions are simply to apply business best practices from other industries in order to build brand loyalty, improve customer service, improve your product and promote your public relations. The problem has been that how to go about actually do this for powerlifting is unclear. The sport and how it is run have basically been unchanged for the past 18-20 years ever since it fractionalized back in the mid 80's. Going back to a single federation won't necessarily solve powerlifting's problems either for the reasons I've outlined above. But, if a single federation can find a solution to the above problems then the free market would allow it to become dominant. Until this happens any type of mergers or umbrella organizations that doesn't take these matters into account is doomed to fail . This is a very important point that is always overlooked in any discussions I've seen on the internet or in magazines regarding unification. If a solution isn't found, then new federations will always be able to sprout up and attain enough success to sustain themselves even if ALL existing feds were to somehow merge.
This then also answers the question of why the sport split into different federations in the first place. Simply put it was because the USPF did not meet the customer demands of the powerlifting market. If the APF and ADFPA provided some type of bogus product as some people are wont to say, then they would have both folded up and gone out of business a long time ago. It's a popular past time in this sport to spin conspiracy theories about why things happened like they did but simply put things have gotten to this point because market forces allowed them to happen. For all the talk about the NFL being the "No Fun League" it completely destroyed the XFL and USFL, which were supposed to be more exciting, and has never been more popular. So therefore either the NFL is considered to be fun enough by football fans and provide a very good product or being more fun isn't as big of a differentiator as some people thought. Regardless, the forces that keep pro football from fractionalizing are the same ones that currently split powerlifting.
ES: What is your opinion of the supportive equipment used in powerlifting these days? Is it getting out of hand, or simply an evolution of the sport?
NK: I'm pro equipment and I think it has a place in the sport. But, it is beginning to get out of hand for the bench press even in USAPL/IPF over the past few years. This can be seen by the increased number of missed attempts and bomb outs at bench press nationals as well as at IPF competitions by American lifters. I think we have reached a point of diminishing returns with bench shirt technology including single ply equipment.
Bench press contests have basically become the equivalent of homerun hitting contests where you are just swinging for the fences on every pitch. You open at your max and take 3 attempts trying to lock one out. There's no longer hardly any strategy or coaching required any more. It's really sad to see and I think it really cuts back a lot on the level of excitement.
The squat is different case however due to the nature of the lift as it is performed in USAPL/IPF. Although the fact that you must walk the bar out and set up greatly limits the effectiveness of the gear, a much bigger factor has to do with the fact that the added force generated in the hips by the improved suits must still traverse the lifters midsection in order to transfer itself to the bar. Single ply suits, don't provide you with nearly as much stability in your midsection, especially given that most USAPL/IPF lifters must use a narrower stance in order to hit depth, which forces them to be more bent over. This means that often times the extra power generated by the improved suits is lost due to the torso buckling over, which results in a lift that is less mechanically efficient. IPF bench press records are demolished almost every meet but new squat records are infrequent and broken deadlift records almost unheard off.
Here is how old each IPF open powerlifting WR is:
Weight class squat Average age (months) bench Average age (month) deadlift Average age (months)
52 7 7 126
56 65 7 257
60 55 25 185
67.5 7 41 13
75 7 7 31
82.5 253 7 289
90 281 7 266
100 113 12 126
110 41 257 283
125 97 7 205
SHW 92 71 19
Average (months) 92.8 37.8 150
Add the fact that Jeff Magruders 110kg record will almost certainly be broken this year along with Jeff Henderson's SHW record and the average age of the bench press records will be less than 2 years. If you compare the frequency of broken records in other sports like track and field (shot put, discus, etc.) the rate of broke squat records track it fairly closely. While the rate of broken bench press records is astronomical by any measure. What's particularly interesting is that quite a few deadlift records are over 20 years old and are no where near being broken based on the best lifts in these classes each year.
Progress in any sport is a great thing. But we need to keep in mind Powerlifting is a SPORT based on the display of human strength. When you remove strategy, de-emphasize being a national and world champion and begin to praise missed attempts simply because they were done with a lot of weight, then it ceases to be a sport. When the unlimited all-time bench press record exceeds the unlimited all-time deadlift record, there is something seriously wrong.
I don't know what the solution is but an interesting idea I have heard is to eliminate the handoff in the bench press. This will make the bench press more similar to the squat where the lifter must unrack and set up the bar by themselves. It would mean that the lifter won't be able to use as much shirt because they won't be able to unrack the bar successfully. With the use of adjustable benches, no lifter would be at a disadvantage because each lifter could set the rack height to their preference. The problem with this is the added stress to the lifters rotators due to unracking the bar. Another interesting idea is that for full meets to force the lifter to use the same lifting apparel for all 3 lifts. This would make the lifter either choose to wear looser gear or emphasize one lift at the expense of the others. The IPF has recently been looking at putting additional limits on the material that can be used in manufacturing gear but I haven't yet heard of anyway to limit the design of the shirt as to provide less support that is practical.
ES: What is your opinion of the professional movement in powerlifting like the WPO and Mountaineer Cup?
NK: I like them along with the Bench America series. I like the added exposure they're giving to the sport. All of them have their own unique angle in how they are marketing the sport and its interesting to see how they are progressing. The Cup is using the team concept similar to other major North American sports along with online betting. Bench America is heavily targeting youth and recreational lifters with a strong emphasis on drug free competition. The WPO has a very loyal hardcore following and is taking more of a strength entertainment approach.
I think a major problem they all face is how to make the sport more visually appealing to the viewing TV audience. There are just way too many people around the lifter when they squat and bench, which blocks the view of the lifters as well as it takes too much of the focus off the lifters themselves. Also, they all have to find a way to convey the intensity and competitive aspects of the sport to the viewing audience. One of the most intense and exciting places you'll ever find are the warm-up room and back stage area of an IPF contest. Every lifter there is there for one purpose only and that is to win. As a result, lifters are trying to psyche each other out and coaches are looking to exploit every possible advantage they can get. It's incredible to see and feel. Unfortunately, very little of this intensity seems to come out in recent telecasts.
Ultimately, each will succeed or fail based on how well they are capable of generating a loyal following of fans for their events. I can't imagine that either the WPO, Cup or Bench American have achieved a break even point yet where they are not loosing money on their productions. This will have to change in the not too distant future for them to continue on. Because of this, their first priority is to make themselves solvent, which means that any goals of big paydays for the lifters will probably have to wait for quite some time. There are many other sports we can look at as examples of what to expect. The NBA struggled to become profitable in the 50's and 60's. Became popular in the 80's, which resulted in huge player contracts in the 90's. The NFL struggled in the 20's, 30's and 40's. Became popular in the 60's, which resulted in big player contracts in the 80's and 90's. The pattern is league's become profitable, owners become wealthy and then players become wealthy. Some of the pro feds have attempted to put the cart in front of the horse but they all seem willing to adapt quickly, which is important. It's a very exciting time to be involved in powerlifting.
ES: How did you get involved with the USAPL and Dennis Brady?
NK: I joined B&W gym several years ago, which is owned by Dennis. Dennis is a former USAPL (then ADFPA) President and was the Illinois state chairman for over 15 years. With all the meets he puts on, its almost impossible to train at B&W Gym and not be involved with USAPL.
ES: Under what circumstances did you become the USAPL State Chairman, replacing long-time chair Dennis Brady?
NK: When all is said and done, Dennis was just getting burnt out with the administrative parts of powerlifting and just wanted to remove himself from that part of the sport. In many ways, I feel like I've been Dennis's apprentice over the past 5-6 years and so stepping in to replace him as Illinois state chairman is just a natural progression. Dennis is still closely involved with USAPL Illinois and he's still the first person I go to for advice and help.
ES: What do you plan to change as State Chair? Will you be running the meets in IL, or further aiding Dennis in running the meets?
NK: The biggest change that I'm going to make as Illinois State Chairman is to approach this new position more from the business side rather than the meet director side. This will be done through:
* Adding value and improving brand loyalty for USAPL membership
* Increasing meet director recruitment and retention throughout Illinois.
* Increasing volunteerism and promotions among USAPL Illinois members
* Increasing feeling of ownership and pride among USAPL Illinois members
I want to ensure that the local grassroots lifter feels special and has a voice in how the organization is run. I think too many meet directors and federations take lifter loyalty for granted. All I ask for is the opportunity to win your business.
I'll eventually begin to host a meet or 2 each year. But at this point, I think there are other areas that need to be addressed.
ES: What chances do you feel the USAPL/IPF has of getting into the Olympics? Do you feel the Olympics is a worthy goal for your organization?
NK: When all is said and done, the positives of getting into the Olympics out weigh the negatives. However, the goal of Olympic recognition is really being driven from within the IPF rather than USAPL. The reason for this is that there are many IPF affiliates in Europe and Asia that stand to gain access to a ton of government funding should Powerlifting become an Olympic sport. From the American perspective, this windfall isn't quite as direct but we should certainly expect greater access to sponsors and media coverage.
If Olympic recognition does come, it is most important for us to not follow Weightlifting's path in the USA where all they have become is a Olympic training facility with almost no grassroots or local lifter support. Balancing the needs of the world class and local lifters is a very difficult thing to do just by being an IPF affiliate. Olympic recognition would potentially place an even greater emphasis on the elite lifters, which could lead to long term problems. A big advantage that USAPL has in this area is a very strong national infrastructure. I believe we currently have state chairmen in 47 or 48 of the 50 states along with dozens of top notch meet directors and hundreds of dedicated volunteers and referees. These people are the true backbone and foundation of the organization and thus are the one to ensure that the needs of the local lifter are met.
ES: Nectar, thanks for taking the time to do the interview! Is there anything else you would like to add?
NK: I just want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to be interviewed and I look forward to working with you in the future.
Back to Interviews